FOV & Verite [cockpit view topic]

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FOV & Verite [cockpit view topic]

Postby AADX » 25 May 2009 13:32

A follow on topic to the "widescreen vs widescreens" one. This topic shows the FOV (Field of View) settings and how they affect the width of the view, the perspective seen and perceived distance to panel and what you see.

As said in the W vs W topic, I use the 2d panel for popping switches, dialing in values, as if it were a pop up panel 'drawer' where items are consistently placed, clickable, legible and acessible. and then I switch back to 3D view with CTRL-O to get my in-flight, hands-on, eyes-up view. However.. the default FOV at 45° is pretty limited.

:geek: FOV 45° on approximately on par with a 50mm camera lens, which as you see, produces a visual image approximately 1:1 as viewed naturally. This would be like making a cardboard panel with a ... hold out your hand and look at the literal size of your screen as it sits 2' in front of you. Not the actual inch size, but the inch size at that distance. What happens is that it IS very cropping, limited and restrictive of the view. If you moved that restrictor panel nearer your eyes, you would see more peripheral through the opening, but that doesn't happen if you scootch up closer to the monitor. So... to effect a wider peripheral vision area able to be seen, the Field of View (FOV) setting is used.

:geek: The way I describe this is. as you sit wherever you are. stare forward. focus on something, and take note of how far to the side you can see things clearly still, and then how far you can see total width of peripheral vision. Central vision is pretty limited to where you're focusing. Generally clear peripheral is ~45°, and wide vision peripheral is approximately 90°. But...

:ugeek: As you sit at your computer, or even go take a look sitting in your car. you can physically see that wide with your eyes. but.. if you were to get a tape measure and measure the witdh of what you see at 2' from you. that would be about 4-5 feet of lateral width. You'd need at least a three large monitor width to span that visual range by distance. If you thought about cramming that visual area into the space of the monitor at your computer, it would have to be with a fisheye lens. So. What is the solution?

Well, one way is to do it by math. Averaged 45° 1:1 view versus 90° total peripheral. 45+90/2=67.5°. fair enough. I can encourage that for people with "wide aspect ratio" displays. Though, upwards of 70 degrees FOV can look pretty fisheye. I tend to reserve 70 FOV for Helicopters when more useful peripheral vision is necessary. How about if the high end of the peripheral is reduced to come down from the fringe edge of periphery vision. 45+80/2=62.5°, 45+70/2=57.5° Averages between central vision 1:1 and what is reasonable to see with peripheral. Now, onto the examples.

screenshot_3.png

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:ugeek: GlowWorm has a setup that is ~3000x1000 effective image dimension between two screens wide. If you run 2 or 3 screens wide and have the x-plane display set to ~3x normal width, it stands to reason that you would set lateral FOV to a similar multipler width. if 45 FOV would be for central view x3 total width would be 135 FOV to span across a 3x width total view.

I personally use 55-60 FOV most of the time. 65 in rare occasion when i'm lazy and just bump 45 up twice. and 75 for helicopters to get the huge picture from the cockpit perspective through the chin windows and side windows for heli landings. Remember. FOV applies to everything in x-plane (other than the fixed 2d panel). So a high FOV will also fisheye the view of the aircraft when viewed externally.

And, while looking at the 3D cockpit view, there's no better time to mention the rarely noticed or used "Cinema Verite" feature in X-Plane.

screenshot_7.png


The more often noticed affect this has is in the external views. Tower, Spot, Fly-By, etc. Where the view 'moves' a little on it's own as if looking through binoculars or a camera. The view moves a little that would be like if being held by a person, less than absolutely fixed and still.

:ugeek: Now, for the much COOLER way this effect is employed in X-Plane. What it does is it also "frees" the pilot viewpoint head to G force effects.

When in CTRL-O 3D view w/o this effect on. you roll, the view is literally "locked" in place as if your head was riveted to the seat and bolted in place. think a camera literally fixed on a frame arm attached to the aircraft. Not natural at all.

When in CTRL-O 3D view WITH this effect on, G-Force effects affect the view. When you roll, the view gets disturbed a little, the harder and faster the aircraft is moved around, the view is affected by roll forces, acceleration and braking forces, and vertical G forces. Turn on Cinema Verite from the Views Menu, and in any 3D cockpit view*, you'll enjoy a "natrual view" where the plane flies around your rubberneck big melon. If you yank and bank, your view will be all over the place, if you maneuver smoothly, your view will be very natural and smooth. If you pull high g-force turns.. it'll be hard to see where you're going as your head is pulled into the floor. Well. you'll just have to see for yourself.

:idea: Planes like the SR2X that are native in 3D view as their "2d panel view" are locked in place while in the "W" view. To see it in the SR2X series, you do have to go into CTRL-O first, or a 3D view entered from a hat switch nudge you've assigned to pan the 3d view.

:idea: Also, regarding the SR2X, the FOV applies to the "W" view also since it's in 3D view 100% of the time. So to see more in the W view, FOV must be adjusted to suit your view preference.
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Field of View (FOV)

Postby GlowWorm » 12 Jul 2009 08:02

Aloha all,

Further to the Field of View topic by AADX here: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=130&start=0

I found a nerdy equation at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/x-plane-tech/ that works for me:

The realistic FOV value is the one that gives you the correct perspective. It all depends on how close you have the screen. The aspect ratio of the screen has nothing to do with it. The basic idea is to match the FOV to the angle of your actual field of view that the screen covers. That value is twice the arctangent of half the screen width divided by the distance from your eyes to the center of the screen.

As a worked example, I'm sitting here in front of a tube with an image that's 15 1/2" wide, and I'm 16" away from it. So the FOV is
2 * ATAN (15.5 / 2 / 16)
or 52 degrees.


Based on my setup (3600 x 1000 using two 24" screens = 42" wide) and a eye-lcd distance (20") to the screen, I have the following FOV: 2 x ATAN (42 / 2 / 20) = 93 deg
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Re: FOV & Verite

Postby AADX » 12 Aug 2009 08:39

Part 2 : LFX w/ new full-use 3D cockpit, and more FOV examples.

At Standard Size Ratio

screenshot_0.jpg

screenshot_1.jpg

screenshot_2.jpg

screenshot_3.jpg


At Widescreen Size Ratio

screenshot_4.jpg

screenshot_5.jpg

screenshot_6.jpg

screenshot_7.jpg

screenshot_8.jpg
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Re: FOV & Verite

Postby AADX » 15 Jan 2010 14:06

On a related subject of FOV and native 3D view. I find that I like 65° FOV on my 1280x1024 display. As shown in the former topic entry, up to 70, 75, 80 may be appropriate for wide, and large & wide format displays.. but.. It really is up to your personal preference. However, "View Navigation" is also an issue, because at any one FOV it is like sitting back and widening your view.. but what do you do when you wanna focus in on a number.. if the FOV is widened out, then all the numbers on the GPS are teeny...

Well, the first trick is, CTRL-O to toggle into 3D pan/scan/zoom view. View control switches to the mouse and you can look around naturally and use the plus and minus keys to zoom the view in and out.. and then tap Q or E to nudge the view off the mouse control when you're looking at what you want, to free the mouse to then click on things.. then back to the normal view with W or another hit of CTRL-O. But.. that requires moving the view around... is there a way to do it without getting disoriented..

Yes.. the use of the plus and minus keys cited above work also from the W view since it is set in the aircraft as to use the 3D view for the forward "2D" view.. so the forward "2D" W view is a 3D view.. just locked into a forward position. Only thing you don't get with W is the loose camera "cinema verite" g-force functions. And the Q & E keys from the W view toggle them whole 45 degree left right changes. If you use CTRL-O to enter 3D pan/scan view.. but don't move it.. then Q & E just rotate the view left and right in smooth increment..a little.. little more.. rotating the view around. then use + / - to zoom in and out, and W or CTRL-O to return to normal view. But try this also...

W or CTRL-O view forward, as shown here at FOV 65°. Wanna see what's on the PFD or GPS better, while still looking forward. Just apply some 'plus'

FOV65_ZOOM+0.jpg

FOV65_ZOOM+1.jpg

FOV65_ZOOM+2.jpg



Next up in this concept.. is related to "if I use CTRL-O, then Q & E to pan little bits left and right, how do I look down?"

Historically, W is the forward (2D) view, Arrows up/down slew the view from upper limit to lower limit (of a 2d panel), but make things pretty funky when trying the same in a 3D view.. it slews the view to lower limit being at -180 I think. So.. arrows don't help from the W view, and in the CTRL-O view, arrows up/down literally raise and lower the view like on a "power chair". So.. what to do. The "S" key view was added a long time ago and what it did was lower the "view out the window" as if something like schootching up to the panel to look over the nose and look down some. Maybe you're on short final.. and instead of riding into the flare seated back head on the headrest.. you lean forward and look DOWN over the nose... think you see where i'm going yet?

If you are in the W tap the S key to "look down a little"... It does have 4 detents of "look down" so there is look-down, look-down-some-more, and so on, until it resets back to the 'up' view position. In CTRL-O view, S rotates the view down, it has the same "look down" effect, but in the 3D CTRL-O view.. there is no (that I have found yet) rotate the view back up'wards. W returns it to the W view, CTRL-O returns it to the W view position in 3D view, I haven't tried shift-S that may just make it go faster like other shift-modifier views do so if/when I find that out, i'll say. But here's the look of the W and then +S, +S, +S view.

FOV65_S0.jpg

FOV65_S1.jpg

FOV65_S2.jpg

FOV65_S3.jpg


... at which point another S sends it back to the W forward up view.

Try it all in combination. Try it at different FOV settings that you prefer. I find it to be a great way to have a sit back wide pilot view, ability to zoom in to look at a number, adjust a radio, look at the DIS, TRK, GS..look in to adjust the altitude.. or confirm heading entry.. pan drop the view down a little to hit a switch, or see something just off view to the bottom a little, without loosing view out the window while hand flying... and most importantly of all.. not getting disoriented or trying to flop the view around in 3d-mouseview while trying to handfly.. the S and zoom modifiers help keep you going where you intend to be going, while emulating glancing and focusing on things to see them better, without loosing your bearings.
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Re: FOV & Verite

Postby AADX » 05 Jun 2010 10:30

think proverbial needing to move your body and head in the real plane to orientate to see and punch buttons..

in x-plane, in order to do that.. you initiate 3D free view, CTRL-O.. then movement keys

page_up = forward
page_down = reverse
arrow left = lateral slide left
arrow right = lateral slide right
arrow up = vertical elevation up
arrow down = vertical elevation down

mouse view drives the view angle around

when you have it where you want it... tap Q or E
which 'bump' the mouse driven 3d view, and release the mouse control so you can then punch buttons however you like

when "all done"..
W to return to "2d cockpit panel view" = which in lots of planes these days. returns to the pilot position, view forward, of the 3d-native cockpit-panel
CTRL-O again to reset to toggling between W and pilot view 3D free view

to get to the copilot side. similar
CTRL-O
then arrow right to slide right over to the right seat.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently.
While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius.
Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
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Re: FOV & Verite [cockpit view topic]

Postby AADX » 04 Feb 2013 17:25

needs to update this topic with v10 view-navigation and view subjects.

lets just say for now. for v10

enter 3D view with Shift-9 (I think)

lateral view turning with keys Q and E
vertical view rotation with keys R and F

your mileage may vary with view movement on the arrow keys which controls lateral movement position, and vertical movement position, but not view angle

view forward and aft slewing, relative to the camera angle, I believe, is on keys comma and period ; , and . (not sure on that, good luck)
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently.
While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius.
Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
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